RE: Sirloin

ST replied to my Sirloin post with a good point.

Actually, I am putting a lot of :words: in by assuming a lot of things. Though, I based the post on the whole set of ideas rather than just an individual idea. But, the changes to HD Remix aren't quite on the same level as single-button specials like those proposed for SF Flashback. With the whole set of ideas like time-recall/reserve and 1-button specials makes it seem like it's not a fighter anymore, as apposed to HD Remix input simplification which is a lot different. But thinking about it more specifically/individually to HD Remix, I still don't entirely agree with it -- though certainly it's not "as bad".

For the most part, I do agree with some modifications; like changing Cammy's Hooligan Combination from a TK input to quarter circle. It makes sense to me. Since, well, that move has a lot of startup time and isn't invulnerable or anything, so additional inputs isn't exactly modifying or hindering the use of it, they're just extraneous and the simplified input doesn't disrupt anything.

But, in the example given of changing Zangief's 360 and 720 motions to half circles so that you don't have to push up: I find this is somewhat problematic. Thankfully, it doesn't allow players to mash it during blockstun -- hoping to snatch up anything with a framegap or frame disadvantage -- because you still have to let go of down+back low guard in order to do this move. But it does allow people to do standing 720s without having to buffer it off anything.

The result is that you can be closer than you normally would and you don't have to deal with the jump trigger. With the 720 motion you either had to be landing or you had to buffer the upward directionals during something, such as a whiffed jab or hitstun/blockstun (or from a knockdown).

In order for the whiff-jab trick to work, you actually had to whiff a jab, meaning you'd have to be out of range for the jab. And in order for hitstun/blockstun you'd have to actually get hit by or block something, and then react quickly enough to have time to buffer and then confirm if it'd hit. Without needing a jab whiff or blockstun you can actually be point blank if you wanted to. Hugo could throw you into the corner then walk-up super you regardless of whether you tech-rolled or not. Whereas with the 720 you couldn't reliably do that. Hugo could also walk-up super you with no visual indication or warning that he's going to do that, whereas with 720 you'd have to have something buffering it as explained above. The time you're able to walk after inputting the command changes slightly too, since you've given potentially the entire buffer window after the initial inputs, whereas if you buffer it from a whiff jab you're likely to be holding toward before you actually end the jab and start walking (which gives you less time to walk forward).

I find this disruptive because I think it changes the way the move is used, not just how it is executed. And there's other things in HD Remix that I would disagree with for the same reason, like changing the requirement of holding 3 buttons to 2 buttons for Balrog's Turn Punch.

One could argue that modifying the use of a move is for the better anyway. Which, it may or may not be. They did modify how a lot of moves worked in the game, such as Chun's spinning neck breaker (df+RH) and Honda's Ochio (command throw).

Again, these changes may or may not be good. But, I personally dislike quite a lot of them, and I disagree with some simplified inputs regardless of whether they make the character better or not. I feel command throw supers like Zangief's and Hugo's should be mechanically difficult to do because they are so rewarding, impossible to avoid after flash, and unblockable. But I feel the difficulty and time spent used to execute isn't really the main issue, it's the functionality of how and when you can/could perform the move. The character itself might not automatically become top-tier bullshit as a result, but I still find it to be "bullshit" in general. As in "Why is this character allowed to get away with this bullshit?" type of sentiment.

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